Where will Elizabeth run, and who is planning for by-elections?

Every Monday, I trot off to the Hill Times website to imbibe the best political reporting in the country. This morning, I saw an intriguing article entitled: May ‘closes the door’ on a byelection run for Greens, seeking new riding . As usual, it was a little frustrating to find the balance of the article blocked, and I even, (briefly) considered ponying up for a subscription so as to get the whole story NOW. It isn’t only the Hill Times, apparently Elizabeth May has told several journalists that she is out of the running for any Federal by-elections, and is focusing on finding the best riding for herself in the next General election.

The Owen Sound SunTimes seems to think that Elizabeth is looking hard at Bruce Grey Owen Sound as a target riding. (As does the Toronto Star). It is also reported that there are still 2 other target ridings. Saanich – Gulf-Islands, (SGI), and Guelph. I had been under the impression that the decision had already been made to run in SGI, but unless Elizabeth is deliberately playing coy, these interviews seem to indicate the choice is still open. Two of these ridings are pretty serious Conservative strongholds. BGOS, and SGI. There is only one way to win in either of them. That is to campaign with the message that targets the Conservatives. Please read this post I wrote in January for a nice and simple explanation. Guelph is the obvious target though. The big caveat is that the Campaign Committee needs to actually discuss this with the Guelph EDA, and see if there is enough support for Elizabeth with the local membership. There were some very upset people in Guelph last fall, but maybe they’ve gotten over their ‘mad’ enough to give a leaders campaign a whirl?

 In the same article, the Suntimes report that CCMV has been discarded, because the by-election hasn’t been called yet. Since no by-elections have been called anywhere, I think that means that Elizabeth isn’t prepared to take the risk of declaring for any by-election, and then having the rug yanked out from under her if a general election super-cedes the by-election. I can understand why. She has to win in her next trip to the polls, and while a by-election  is the best opportunity, the ridings available aren’t very good candidates for her in a General election.

 The problem of course is that Elizabeth very publicly, and frequently promised to run in the first possible by-election, so now she has to find a graceful way to back down from that commitment. In my estimation, she will have to eat a wee nibble of humble pie, and back down. It will help a lot if she were able to make a grand announcement of a couple spare deputy leaders decisions to run in Quebec, and BC by-elections. Who to get for CCMV I don’t have a clue. Better get cracking though, the by-elections will be happening this fall, and the GPC cannot afford to lose any ground in the event the general election doesn’t happen this fall.

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Permanent riding for Elizabeth is a good plan

I have no idea what the campaign committee's actual plan is, but if the plan is to avoid the by-elections and find a permanent place for Elizabeth to run, then I support it 100%.  Look at what happened in Guelph in 2008 .. the by-election vote was only a few days away when the general election call came.  Mike had a good shot at winning the by-election, but then had to start all over with another marathon run and a massive fund raising effort to keep up with the spending in the second campaign.

We always talk about sustainability .. perhaps a sustainable win is worth the effort.

I know that there are many people involved in this decision, and I believe we should give them an opportunity to do what they were asked to do.

Jim Johnston, Lambton-Kent-Middlesex Opinions expressed are my own.

If a by-election happens in a

If a by-election happens in a strong riding which would make a good fit, it would make sense for Elizabeth to run.  However, it would do more harm to the party if she ran in a by-election which the party was not prepared for and she came in third of fourth.  The party is better off putting some resources into the by-elections and recruiting a strong local candidate who would be willing to role into a general election.

BTW.  The who HT article can be downloaded here:

http://www.hilltimes.ca/pdf/2009/081009_ht.pdf

My only fear is...

I don't know that the Campaign Commitee is planning this campaign well. I hope they are, but have no certain knowledge. I can only hope that they actually think it through, and realise that the Conservatives are not vulnerable to the GPC, unless the GPC does a 180 degree spin. IMHO, BGOS and SGI both fit into roughly the same category as Central Nova. If I kept my mouth shut, and waited for a decision from on high, I would be remiss should this important reality not be taken into account.

BTW, thanks Dan for the pdf link to the Hill Times. That is a wonderful resource for any cheapskate dyed in the wool political Junkies like myself.

 

deserve it

Matthew,

Poll after poll indicate that Conservative support is the firmest of all parties, with lowest 2nd choice of Greens, lowest having any 2nd choice at all.  So why and how would it be sensible at this stage to do a "180" & target them?  How would enough of them turn to Greens no matter what, even if placards were waved showing how un-conservative their Conservatives were?  (Unless you're not really recommending a 180, just pointing out the difficulty.) Elsewhere I think I caught you (sorry if it was someone else) impatiently suggesting that Greens are in big trouble if their leader fails to win this time around. How so?  It might be played up to look badly on GPC if main media are prompted to do so, or for some other stupid reason. But "failure" would not be unexpected at this still too early stage, nor would it be failure if a strong relative % were attained in any case, even as 4th place finish in a closely split race.  I'm sorry, I guess I've been around dissenting ways for far too long to feel like GPC is on some kind of cliff's edge.  Much more important would be for the party to attain some greater discipline & care among the main players & candidates in presenting a sharp campaign message, in an attempt to target overall 10% of the vote, or at least to have election day match the pre-election polls running. A frustratingly seatless 10% or near to should have GPC's profile enhanced further. A good campaign should have others begin to take up more Green themes afterward. Again, I do appreciate the enthusiasm I see but fear a longer view isn't being had, and if that enthusiasm isn't tempered some, frustration of unrealistic expectations would lead to shedding of valuable supporters.  

Liberals form the largest real block of voters who should shed most readily to Greens.  It's time to stop being nice to Liberals, to tell it like it is against Conservatives, to stop being mean to (New?) Democrats, to even show some appreciation for the BQ, to keep at raising the internal bar among Greens in content & ability, for the day in the not too distant future that seats will be had, and truly deserved.

 

You misread what I said

Daryl,

I didn't say they should make a 180 turn, I simply said that would be required to beat a Conservative with a very strong plurality. As far as the polls go, nobody should ever forget that Polls are backwards looking. It isn't the polls which determine peoples opinions, it is people who determine poll outcomes. People are always susceptible to persuasion to some degree, so it becomes a function of how well you construct your proposition to the electorate. If that weren't the case, the electoral politics would be a waste of time. The CPC support was pretty damned soft 4 years ago, and one day it will be soft again. Winning a riding will happen on the ground, one-on-one retail politics. This effort will be supported by the air war. If the Party is convinced that the next Federal elections sole purpose is to get Elizabeth May elected, and Elizabeth May insists on unseating a Conservative, then the Party will need to adapt pretty dramatically to suit.

I don't think that failing to elect EMay, or anybody else would be a disaster. We'll get a new leader, and get on with the real job. I do think that this process of inflating expectations, with false rosy visions of how many Greens we're going to elect in the runup to every election are detrimental. Jim Harris was guilty of it, Elizabeth May is guilty of it. And they are definitely far from alone in donning their rose tinted shades. It's the same people who tried to spin the last election results into a 'victory' for Greens.

It is patently obvious that the Liberal Party eats from the same plate as us. Therefore we should be targeting them. They certainly aren't shy about targeting us, because they actually understand the stakes, and will do anything to acquire power. I've blogged on this elsewhere a number of times: http://greencanada.wordpress.com/2008/12/28/the-green-party-threat-to-the-liberal-party-of-canada/

I do regret though that the poisionous tone, and negative campaigning in the last election killed our opportunity to savage the Conservatives. I would love to campaign with a viable message for ALL Canadians, rather than simply branding Conservatives as knuckle-draggers, and leaving them uncontested control over the so-called right.

 

that bar again

Be fair, Matthew, I admitted the possibility that you don't really recommend the 180, so no real misreading there. As for polls & persuasion & failures, your point is fairly obvious, but my suggestion is that public judgement is passed, fairly or unfairly, based on expectations, and when GPC polls several points higher than it can pull out polled support to actually vote, much is made of that.  I think too much was made of the "strategic voting" business in the bigger picture (as I said at http://www.greenparty.ca/blogs/2619/2009-05-19/questions-green-party-s-e... , pt. #2), it was to be expected that GPC would fall a point or so below as polled pre-election.  

Why would we necessarily get a new leader if the current one fails to win, as seems likely?
Whatever issues I myself have with the leadership, I for one obviously feel that on balance the overall benefit of "raising the bar" in GPC accomplished by the current leader & her attracting many capable people, that benefit outweighs by a lot the more immediate electoral prospects.
It would be more her own choice, maybe from understandable fatigue, to move on, but her having been leader will have been the opposite to disservice to the party, wherever it would go thenceforth, and for now without her it's hard to see that bar being raised ever more, about which I keep harping because it is the most important thing of all both as public service (we use public moneys nota bene) and for medium term party electoral prospects.

All in all, though, from your words I sense we would agree on much.

yeah, change the date prefix

yeah, change the date prefix on the file name for future reads :-)

Sorry?

I know you're trying to say something here, and it's probably useful, but could you elaborate a teensy bit?

Hill Times

to get the tabloid pdf instead of the subscriber-only version, at the link provided, http://www.hilltimes.ca/pdf/2009/081009_ht.pdf , amend the "2009/081009" part as needed.

Thanks to Dan for bringing this option, I hadn't noticed it.

Shh.. don't publish too

Shh.. don't publish too widely..

If it is Owen Sound...

If she does run in Owen Sound a key element that would help is outside our control.  Namely, if the CPC or Liberals start to shift into a big or clear lead.

Many people like to have a government member as their MP figuring it means more 'goodies' for their riding (I've heard it enough times to figure there is some truth in the idea that this influences voters).  BGOS is a CPC stronghold at the moment and the Liberals have very low support so there is a logic there that we could at least place a close 2nd if not win.  If the Liberals pull into a big lead then many CPC voters might just not show up, but we might lose a lot of our support to the 'strategic vote' people thinking Iggy should win.  If the CPC pulls into a big lead then we have the mix of 'we want the winning party' vs CPC voters feeling there is no urgency to vote.

BGOS would be tough to win, but if we assume a 15-20% push via the leader running there it could happen.  The EDA there is strong and I regularly get emails from them since donating a bit of money during the last election (a smart move which all EDA's should follow).

I still feel Guelph is the best shot, but if May must run vs a CPC member then BGOS would probably be her best bet.

John Northey
Wellington-Halton Hills

She should be in NEW WESTMINSTER !!

She should be in NEW WESTMINSTER !!

Submitted by John Shavluk on 12 August 2009 - 4:36pm.   

I must be missing something important here or just  don't get it.

 

But its a nobrainer for me that she should be covering two bases at once and be setting up in new Westminster for obviously many reasons.

dawn black slipped to provincial government so we have  no incumbent

it will be called as a by election if no election is called

 

it was already a left wing seat....

 

and I can guarantee an up swell in the left vote

because of a certain policy that can not be done in other choices...

first chance anywhere I say !!

if its so important to elect her

 

and no other green competent it seems

why is no one else saying this?

 

why do we need a hard conservative choice instead of easy pickens?

 

 

I volunteer if you wont.

 

 

(from)

http://www.greenparty.ca/node/11480

(disclaimer:do not be confused and think shavluk is the green party talking...hahha) http://shavluk.com/ http://whyprohibition.ca/ http://juror.ca

so when the by election is called tomorrow ...in NEW WESTMINSTER

from here

http://greenparty.ca/blogs/2022/2009-09-02/if-iggy-and-libs-are-hot-trot-harpers-govt-could-fall-week-september-14

 

 

"""No Chance

Submitted by John Shavluk on 3 September 2009 - 11:33am.   

No election will be called.

What for?

Contrary to the media complicit participation in this smoke screen ...... Iggy and Harper are twins to me in many ways and no election will be called in my view.

Iggy is just laying the latest ploy move.

Think about it...was he to say all is just ....peachy?

Even though it is to their masters?

Sorry I do not believe an election is coming before the years end....why?

layton will probably say his canned lines as he now shakes in his booties and backs down.....yes... with some scattered crumbs to workers as an excuse. He knows he is going down.

They should be providing much more entertainment than this for what ? each at $155,000 dollars a year...eh?

Build the EDA's and forget about trigger happy game players.

My 2 cents

 

 

Cheers""

 

 

 

So now when the By election is called tomorrow  in Westminster.....then what?

 

Will the candidate step aside?

Will there be another nomination process?

Will E May challenge here?

 

 

Hate to say I told you so..........................

(disclaimer:do not be confused and think shavluk is the green party talking...hahha) http://shavluk.com/ http://whyprohibition.ca/ http://juror.ca